Progression of Tactical Evolution
@Lt.Winters: You're pretty much right-on. Every now and then, you run into a problem, such as the other team showing up with vastly better guns. So, you make adjustments and change your thinking. Sometimes the change takes a while [Guerilla Warfare takes a while to get really good at] or comes instantly [Tactical Theory's Outnumbered Strategy can be deadly effective regardless of skill level]. Either way, changes in thinking usher in changes in the way you fight. It can take many years or a single battle, depending on the situations. You would be surprised how much one can advance in a single war. Then again, jumping a whole era [stage works too] in one go is very rare.
It is possible to skip the Progressive and head right for the Fluid Stage/Era. However, that's a huge change and is probably very difficult. My team entered the Fluid Era only this June, having spent an entire year fighting in the Progressive.
I came up with all this in the shower one day, so please point out flaws now rather than later when it goes into my Tactical Theory book.
It is possible to skip the Progressive and head right for the Fluid Stage/Era. However, that's a huge change and is probably very difficult. My team entered the Fluid Era only this June, having spent an entire year fighting in the Progressive.
I came up with all this in the shower one day, so please point out flaws now rather than later when it goes into my Tactical Theory book.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
Could you please define the difference between the Progressive and Fluid Stages? Thanks.
I just want to confirm that, although I'm still in my first year in Soakerdom (halfway through counting SSC
), this seems like a really promising year. Congrats to all you people who have managed to put together strong teams--WaterWolf's Maple Mountain Marines, urbanfighter/forestfighter's California Militia, and now perhaps Napolean's group. There was a lot of concern about the future, if I remember correctly. 
Wish I could get something going...
WaterWolf wrote:It seems like this Fall has been marked by the start of several teams (My own included).
I wonder what the specific cause of this is, or if its just random chance.
I just want to confirm that, although I'm still in my first year in Soakerdom (halfway through counting SSC


Wish I could get something going...
The Progressive Era is the bridge between the Firepower and Fluid Eras. Some characteristics of the two [The Progression concept does NOT apply to Soakfests]:
Progressive Era/Stage:
-Use of naturally strong positions as "bases" or "forts"
-Actual bases and forts have been ditched
-Positions have been ditched in favor of formal ranks, double positions, or position-switching
-Stock guns are outclassed
-Modded guns are effective or outclassed depending on type of mod/gun
-Small homemades are outclassed, large homemades are effective
-WBLs are effective
-Water Balloons are somewhat effective
-Many engagements still take place in the open
-Outnumbered teams tend to lose badly
-Traps have been ditched
-Effective defense does not require man-to-man coverage. A skilled defender can hold off up to 2 attackers [compared to 3 for the Firepower Stage]
-Ambushes are somewhat common and somewhat effective
-Commanders use the ubiquitous position and the rigid or regular command style
-Teams start utilizing counters and apply old tactics to new situations
-Teams start using Tactical Theory concepts, such as the Initiative, Momentum, Tempo, Specialization of Sidearms, Determination of Duels, etc.
Fluid Era/Stage:
-Naturally strong positions that are open have been ditched
-Actual bases and forts have been ditched
-The ubiquitous position and informal ranks are used [all others have been ditched]
-Stock guns are effective again
-Modded guns are quite effective [due to high battle practicality, especially the mid-size CPS's]
-Small homemades are effective, large homemades have been ditched
-WBLs are somewhat effective [large ones have been ditched]
-Water Balloons have been, for the most part, ditched
-Few engagements still take place in the open
-Outnumbered teams can kick serious ass, the bigger the numbers gap, the bigger the upset can be. In fact, the most spectacular decisive victories come this way
-Traps have been ditched
-Effective defense requires man-to-man coverage. A skilled defender can only fend off one attacker, as the other will move to flank
-Ambushes are very common and extremely effective
-Commanders use the ubiquitous position and the fluid command style
-Teams are able to invent their own tactics or new uses for old ones to solve new problems and counter enemy tactics
-Battle Action can be broken down into action-reaction pairs, such as your move, enemy's counter, your counter, enemy's move, your counter, enemy's counter, etc.
-Tactical Theory is utilized to its maximum potential, with all its concepts and 74-odd tactics
And I probably missed something...
Progressive Era/Stage:
-Use of naturally strong positions as "bases" or "forts"
-Actual bases and forts have been ditched
-Positions have been ditched in favor of formal ranks, double positions, or position-switching
-Stock guns are outclassed
-Modded guns are effective or outclassed depending on type of mod/gun
-Small homemades are outclassed, large homemades are effective
-WBLs are effective
-Water Balloons are somewhat effective
-Many engagements still take place in the open
-Outnumbered teams tend to lose badly
-Traps have been ditched
-Effective defense does not require man-to-man coverage. A skilled defender can hold off up to 2 attackers [compared to 3 for the Firepower Stage]
-Ambushes are somewhat common and somewhat effective
-Commanders use the ubiquitous position and the rigid or regular command style
-Teams start utilizing counters and apply old tactics to new situations
-Teams start using Tactical Theory concepts, such as the Initiative, Momentum, Tempo, Specialization of Sidearms, Determination of Duels, etc.
Fluid Era/Stage:
-Naturally strong positions that are open have been ditched
-Actual bases and forts have been ditched
-The ubiquitous position and informal ranks are used [all others have been ditched]
-Stock guns are effective again
-Modded guns are quite effective [due to high battle practicality, especially the mid-size CPS's]
-Small homemades are effective, large homemades have been ditched
-WBLs are somewhat effective [large ones have been ditched]
-Water Balloons have been, for the most part, ditched
-Few engagements still take place in the open
-Outnumbered teams can kick serious ass, the bigger the numbers gap, the bigger the upset can be. In fact, the most spectacular decisive victories come this way
-Traps have been ditched
-Effective defense requires man-to-man coverage. A skilled defender can only fend off one attacker, as the other will move to flank
-Ambushes are very common and extremely effective
-Commanders use the ubiquitous position and the fluid command style
-Teams are able to invent their own tactics or new uses for old ones to solve new problems and counter enemy tactics
-Battle Action can be broken down into action-reaction pairs, such as your move, enemy's counter, your counter, enemy's move, your counter, enemy's counter, etc.
-Tactical Theory is utilized to its maximum potential, with all its concepts and 74-odd tactics
And I probably missed something...
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
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In our past FFA fights we were in the Progressive Era
The Progression concept does NOT apply to Soakfests
This is mainly since tactics don't advance in soakfest games like they do in 1HK games. In a soakfest there can be no stages/eras, due to the effect better firepower has. Bigger is better. Tactical Theory has no importance there, as it is geared for scoring against the enemy, not drenching them. The Theory is designed for totally different goals. Some of the concepts still hold true for a soakfest, such as the Initiative, but it loses nearly all of its importance.
Winter doesn't cause a backslide in the Progression. It is like riding a bike, you always have and remember the other stages behind you. The only way to slide backwards is if you decide to revert. This also means reverting your way of thinking. The characteristics I listed above are only guidelines and observations. The stages have more philosophical value than physical value. The hallmarks of the more advanced eras are maturity and development of intellectualism. Once you enter the Progressive Era, a water war ceases to be a game played on a hot day to soak your friends. It becomes a deeper learning experience and a battle of the mind. You start to rely on your brain more and more and rely on the power of your gun less and less.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
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- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:20 am
- Location: Southeastern Kentucky
A large homemade is, well, a large homemade. Like something with 2 or 3 pcs and a big backpack. Nearly all homemades larger than a CPS 2700, although there are exceptions, most notably Drenchenator's new CPH.
Although it's not all about size. A homemade won't work well in the Fluid Era unless it meets the Fluid Era's strict parameters for Battle Practicality. If it has a low amount of pumps, is mobile enough to go anywhere, is light, compact, and designed specifically for fighting with, then it's probably good to go. Each era/stage has its own defination of Battle Practicality, and team caliber also affects it. For example, a Hardcore Fluid Era team makes very little use of homemades at all, while an Advanced Firepower Era team would build the biggest and most powerful homemades possible.
I've just realized that this solves the old battle practicality debate, as different level teams in different stages have different ideas about what "battle practicality" means.
Although it's not all about size. A homemade won't work well in the Fluid Era unless it meets the Fluid Era's strict parameters for Battle Practicality. If it has a low amount of pumps, is mobile enough to go anywhere, is light, compact, and designed specifically for fighting with, then it's probably good to go. Each era/stage has its own defination of Battle Practicality, and team caliber also affects it. For example, a Hardcore Fluid Era team makes very little use of homemades at all, while an Advanced Firepower Era team would build the biggest and most powerful homemades possible.
I've just realized that this solves the old battle practicality debate, as different level teams in different stages have different ideas about what "battle practicality" means.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
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- Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:20 am
- Location: Southeastern Kentucky
I remember "the old battle practicality debate"--I never understood that. Although I do know that my APH takes a lot of pumps, even when doing tap/pump.
Anyway, thanks for getting such a thorough comparison up. The names do indeed show the differences. I guess you've gone all Viet-Cong with the Fluid Stage, what with more mobility and the use of closed terrain and tactics as opposed to plain firepower. Mentally speaking, I'll always have that lust for power that will keep me in the Progressive Stage. But I see what you mean.
A small, compact homemade will probably work for me, although since it's a bit idealistic, a modded gun will pass.
@ Napoleon: The thing about the Fluid Stage is that it's all about the tactics, and not about the firepower. So if you're concentrating on what weapons to use, you probably have the wrong idea. That's my opinion at any rate...and it's why I'll never be Fluid Stage. Still, as DX said, the Fluid Stage isn't necessarily better.
Anyway, thanks for getting such a thorough comparison up. The names do indeed show the differences. I guess you've gone all Viet-Cong with the Fluid Stage, what with more mobility and the use of closed terrain and tactics as opposed to plain firepower. Mentally speaking, I'll always have that lust for power that will keep me in the Progressive Stage. But I see what you mean.

A small, compact homemade will probably work for me, although since it's a bit idealistic, a modded gun will pass.
@ Napoleon: The thing about the Fluid Stage is that it's all about the tactics, and not about the firepower. So if you're concentrating on what weapons to use, you probably have the wrong idea. That's my opinion at any rate...and it's why I'll never be Fluid Stage. Still, as DX said, the Fluid Stage isn't necessarily better.
I think pretty much any of my old arguments involving wars can be reasoned out with a concept of Tactical Theory, in this case, Battle Practicality is explained by the Progression. Ben and I were arguing for one definition when one definition can't exist. Progression of Tactical Evolution is like the last piece of the Tactical Theory puzzle. Everything makes more sense when it is factored in. I've also argued about one universal set of rules, when one universal set of rules can't exist either.
Since this is the Progression topic, I'm adding a new stage and a new level. There's always something above you, and I need to make this true for my own team. The Professional Era/Stage and Professional are now part of the Progression and team caliber. The full lists go as follows:
Progression of Tactical Evolution:
Team-Building Era
Fort-Building Era
Firepower Era
Progressive Era
Fluid Era
Professional Era
Team Caliber:
Developing
Informal
Novice
Average
Advanced
Hardcore
Extreme or Professional [2 different, unrelated options]
SilentGuy is right in regards to the Fluid Era being about tactics and not guns. You can have weaponry designed for the Fluid Era, but that comes after mastering Fluid Era tactics. Also, no stage or caliber is better than another if you make a comparison of them. Whatever works for you, and whatever is fun for you. Tactical Theory is very flexible, and user-oriented. If you like power, by all means stay in your era. If you want to be able to decisively defeat a better opponent, then by all means advance. The only time one is better than another is when two teams from different stages and calibers fight each other. A Hardcore Fluid Era team destroys a New Team-Building Era team. Likewise, if two teams are in the same era, but one is higher in caliber, that team has a slight-to-significant edge, depending on the gap.
Too bad you can't get a doctorate in water warfare-Tactical Theory would be a great thesis. :laugh:
Edited By Duxburian on 1160707631
Since this is the Progression topic, I'm adding a new stage and a new level. There's always something above you, and I need to make this true for my own team. The Professional Era/Stage and Professional are now part of the Progression and team caliber. The full lists go as follows:
Progression of Tactical Evolution:
Team-Building Era
Fort-Building Era
Firepower Era
Progressive Era
Fluid Era
Professional Era
Team Caliber:
Developing
Informal
Novice
Average
Advanced
Hardcore
Extreme or Professional [2 different, unrelated options]
SilentGuy is right in regards to the Fluid Era being about tactics and not guns. You can have weaponry designed for the Fluid Era, but that comes after mastering Fluid Era tactics. Also, no stage or caliber is better than another if you make a comparison of them. Whatever works for you, and whatever is fun for you. Tactical Theory is very flexible, and user-oriented. If you like power, by all means stay in your era. If you want to be able to decisively defeat a better opponent, then by all means advance. The only time one is better than another is when two teams from different stages and calibers fight each other. A Hardcore Fluid Era team destroys a New Team-Building Era team. Likewise, if two teams are in the same era, but one is higher in caliber, that team has a slight-to-significant edge, depending on the gap.
Too bad you can't get a doctorate in water warfare-Tactical Theory would be a great thesis. :laugh:
Edited By Duxburian on 1160707631
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
I don't think using the word "Professional" is a good idea, as it indicates that you are getting paid for playing the game.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
So what's the difference between the Professional and Progressive Eras now? That might help answer WaterWolf's question too.
Ah, that explains it now: the addition of the caliber category to complement the eras. That makes everything make sense. So mentally, I'm interested in and make use of both tactics and firepower. But without a real team my caliber is probably one you should add: Informal. I think.
Ah, that explains it now: the addition of the caliber category to complement the eras. That makes everything make sense. So mentally, I'm interested in and make use of both tactics and firepower. But without a real team my caliber is probably one you should add: Informal. I think.
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- Location: Southeastern Kentucky
Professional Era/Stage: [think skill level, not money] [which is hard, since everything these days revolves around money]
-Naturally strong positions that are open or semi-open have been ditched
-Actual bases and forts have been ditched
-The ubiquitous position and ubiquitous rank is used [all others have been ditched]
-Stock guns are very effective
-Modded guns are very effective [due to high battle practicality, especially the mid-size CPS's]
-Small homemades are somewhat effective, large homemades have been ditched
-All but the most practical WBLs have been ditched
-Water Balloons have been ditched
-No engagements take place in the open, except by accident
-Outnumbered teams should decisively win most if not all of their wars
-Traps have been ditched
-Effective defense requires man-to-man coverage, and often is not so effective
-Ambushes are very common, but not very effective
-Trick tactics are linked with others to create deadly combos
-The role of "Commander" is ubiquitous
-Teams are able to invent their own tactics or new uses for old ones to solve new problems and counter enemy tactics
-Battle Action can be broken down into action-reaction pairs, such as your move, enemy's counter, your counter, enemy's move, your counter, enemy's counter, etc.
-Teams have the experience and permission to directly modify Tactical Theory itself to improve its concepts and keep them up to date.
-Cheating is totally unheard of and Parley is not necessary
Tactical Theory is the closest you'll get to water war science. It is after all defined as "The study of fighting water wars". Unfortunately, by adding the Progression, I tagged on about another 6 months to the book's work time. Oh, and the team calibers are relative. Any can be in any era. For A2's universal rules idea, to be "politically correct", you'd have to make 48 complete sets of rules. That's obviously ridiculous, so certain calibers could be grouped together. Either way, you'd end up with at least 12 [6 eras with 2 groupings per era]. Or if you combined eras, you'd have 4, but that's really stretching it.
Edited By Duxburian on 1160707885
-Naturally strong positions that are open or semi-open have been ditched
-Actual bases and forts have been ditched
-The ubiquitous position and ubiquitous rank is used [all others have been ditched]
-Stock guns are very effective
-Modded guns are very effective [due to high battle practicality, especially the mid-size CPS's]
-Small homemades are somewhat effective, large homemades have been ditched
-All but the most practical WBLs have been ditched
-Water Balloons have been ditched
-No engagements take place in the open, except by accident
-Outnumbered teams should decisively win most if not all of their wars
-Traps have been ditched
-Effective defense requires man-to-man coverage, and often is not so effective
-Ambushes are very common, but not very effective
-Trick tactics are linked with others to create deadly combos
-The role of "Commander" is ubiquitous
-Teams are able to invent their own tactics or new uses for old ones to solve new problems and counter enemy tactics
-Battle Action can be broken down into action-reaction pairs, such as your move, enemy's counter, your counter, enemy's move, your counter, enemy's counter, etc.
-Teams have the experience and permission to directly modify Tactical Theory itself to improve its concepts and keep them up to date.
-Cheating is totally unheard of and Parley is not necessary
Tactical Theory is the closest you'll get to water war science. It is after all defined as "The study of fighting water wars". Unfortunately, by adding the Progression, I tagged on about another 6 months to the book's work time. Oh, and the team calibers are relative. Any can be in any era. For A2's universal rules idea, to be "politically correct", you'd have to make 48 complete sets of rules. That's obviously ridiculous, so certain calibers could be grouped together. Either way, you'd end up with at least 12 [6 eras with 2 groupings per era]. Or if you combined eras, you'd have 4, but that's really stretching it.
Edited By Duxburian on 1160707885
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
So it looks like the professional era is more about behavior in terms of individuality, thinking, and honor than about team tactics. That actually does make a lot of sense. But if you were aiming it at me, I'm not nearly hardcore enough to count. I'm about 1% there.
And what's A2's universal rules idea?
And what's A2's universal rules idea?

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