Tagging System - ^

[isoaker]

The idea of having some form of hit and/or soak determination device has been discussed many times through the online communities' existences. The Super Soaker SoakerTags are the latest commercially available soak determination devices, but many fiind them not too fun to use due to the sticky residue left behind and the fact that one needs to buy replacement SoakerTags.

I had considered ways of converting the SoakerTag clips into something re-useable, but never got around to creating the device. While it could still be potentially developed, it still ends up having players rely on getting enough clips or clip-like objects to modify and costs end up getting higher.

What is needed is a simple to set up, cheap, but effective means of tagging. I believe an excellent solution is at hand.

The original idea was posted on the forums by Dr_Olaf (see Alternate idea for determining hits)

While using clothes pins, the set-up I'm proposing is slightly different. Each tag/target requires two clothes pins (should be not very heavy i.e. standard wooden ones) and 1 square of 2- or 3-ply toilet paper. One part of the sheet of toilet paper is affixed to one's shirt, a necklace, string, a belt, etc. using one of the clothes pins. The other clothes pin is clipped solely to the piece of toilet paper. The target has been soaked if the paper tears and the hanging clothes pin drops. I did some testing to verify that running and jostling does not cause the paper to tear prematurely. Another nice thing is that glancing shots or misty ones don't deliver enough water to tear the tag.

To add to the value of this device, the dangling clothes pin should be labelled with the Player's name. Thus, in a game, an Attacker can collect and keep track of who he/she had soaked very easily simply by picking up the dropped clothespins. Players can be easily set up to have multiple targets on them sort of like life points to make games longer. Points can be awarded for how many remaining targets a Player has at the end of the game, by how many 'soaks' a Player has made, or a combination of both.

Other variables that can be changed include using slightly different paper between the pins (larger tissue for larger soaking areas, construction paper such that more hits are required to tear a tag, or even Super Soaker SoakerTags can be used).

Best of all, this tagging system is cheap to set up. I bought a package of 50 wooden clothes pins for ~$2 Cdn. That's good enough for setting up 25 targets. A roll of toilet paper costs ~$1 or less if buying in bulk (unless you buy really expensive ones) and are good for a LOT of targets each, usually at least 200 sheets per roll.

I'll be taking pictures and posting up more specific tag device set up instructions in due time. Unless a better one is suggested, this tag system will become the official one used for game descriptions here at iSoaker.com. I actually prefer this system over the honour-based one-hit-kill system since this is objective and offers definite soaks-made counting methods while avoid disputes over whether someone is soaked or not.

Thoughts, comments, or questions on this system are most welcomed!

The main drawback I can see is that the tags are not quite the prettiest or sleekest looking devices. Perhaps personalizing the clips with paint/markers as well as using coloured tissue paper will increase the attractiveness of using these type of hit devices.

So many ideas are running through my head on this one... I look forward to further working out the details of this system.

[Adrian]

If only you worked for Hasbro...

Brilliant idea. At 19 years of age, I can't see myself running around the yard with toiletpaper and clothespins on my shirt, but hey, lots of other people might, and that's what counts.

Adrian

[DX]

I like this system, despite that fact that I personally wouldn't use it. The old "Tags vs Honor" issue has more to do with maturity/and or age than which actually works better. This method of tags clearly works better than the honor system, yet certain teams will never use anything but the honor system. Use of the honor system requires high maturity and the ability to work out a dispute through "parley." Wearing tags can indicate that your team is incapable of resolving the kills issue due to immaturity.

I will always stand by the Honor System as the choice kill indicator, although iSoaker's tag system could work fine for many teams.

[isoaker]

Adrian's concerns over the aesthetics are understandable. I'd like to note, though, that the system described thusfar is it in its infancy and perhaps not showing off properly how these devices look like when worn. The clips can (and should) be recoloured something else to fit a Player's personality. The clips don't necessarily need to be clipped to one's shirt and could, instead, be clipped to a string or chain around one's neck. As well, an entire single sheet of paper or tissue is not necessary to use. 1/2 or even 1/4 of a sheet can be enough to allow the device to function well (though I'd lean towards 1/2). Darker coloured tissue as opposed to white toilet paper can be used as well to avoid the 'running-around-with-dirty-toilet-paper-stuck-to-your-shirt look'.

Of course, as Dux notes, this system won't be necessarily adopted by everyone and different groups may still prefer their own variant or system on how to determine soaks. However, I disagree with Dux's suggestion that wearing tags may indicate one's team is incapable of resolving the kills issue due to immaturity. As I'm in science, I strive for objectivity and, if there's a way to avoid a dispute altogether, I tend to prefer it. The use of hit devices will also definitely not prevent all disputes, but will hopefully lessen them. Plus I like the other benefits of this system as noted in my first post (i.e. objective soak/kill counts, possibility of having multiple life points, etc.)

In the end, I couldn't nor wouldn't attempt to enforce everyone everywhere to use a similarly related tagging-system. However, for the sake of future game descriptions here at iSoaker.com, an objective system to determine soaks is necessary. From there, visitors/members can then choose what aspects they like to use for their own water war games. For those not wanting to think so much on coming up with a system, I'd like to provide as complete a system description as possible. This system, unfortunately, was come up a little late in the year and I'd like to field test it with friends to see how effective and functional it really is.

[DX]

Tags wouldn't work well with the local teams here, since our rules have kills well defined and disputes tend to be minor if present at all. In our last war, no kills were disputed because the system worked well. Members of these teams probably wouldn't agree to wear tags anyway, as we are all 16 and older.

It all depends on user/team preference, really. Everything depends on preference when you think about it.

[isoaker]

Well, for groups that already have a well established and preferred method of play, they've no need to adopt another system. However, for those who have yet to find a system that works for their Players, this is one that I'd be recommending to try out. Also, for those with already working systems, I'm hoping that the system being developed here may be good enough that if ever a change of gameplay were desired from time to time, this might be one worth trying out.

To be a good hit/tag system, I feel that the following criteria must be met:

i) ease of use - don't want some overly complex system to figure out who has been tagged or not... or how to set up the tags,etc.
ii) cheap - don't want to have to constantly buy highly priced items in order to continue to play; also, in the event of needing more or replacements, shouldn't cost much to get more devices
iii) functional - indicators should work well when soaked, but not fall apart/be triggered on their own (unless, of course, a Player soaks him/herself); want the system to be as objective as possible to avoid disputes over whether a Player has been eliminated from play or not
iv) durable - main parts of indicators should be able to withstand most typical gameplay scenarios (i.e. running, falling, being dropped from at least 10', being soaked of course, etc.)
v) nice-looking - few would agree to wear something that looks dumb or horrid; tag indicator devices should either look discreet or funky (to appeal to various groups)
vi) devices should be environmentally friendly - devices should be re-useable and/or any consumable portion should be readily and easily biodegradeable and pose no threat to wildlife, plants, or other people.

---------------------------------

The main problems with the system I've proposed thusfar are:
- the looks (many probably wouldn't think that the idea of wooden clothespins and toilet paper sheets on their shirts looks too cool)
- the fact that I've yet to do real play testing using such devices to see if they behave as they should when being used by a group who have never used/seen such devices before

Part of me is also currently concerned over the use of just toilet paper sheets as the consumable soak-receiver since Players who may sweat alot may cause their own indicator to 'activate' though they were never actually soaked.

Other potential problems include:
- loss of the dropped indicator clip during gameplay (running and didn't see where tag fell or tag fell onto an inaccessible area)
- eventual rusting of clip springs (but at least these clips are pretty cheap to replace)
- potential problems during gameplay if a Player picks up the tag of a soaked Player that he/she was NOT responsible for soaking, but just happened to be closer to the fallen tag at the time

Benefits of the system include:
- relative ease of set-up and use
- low cost and ease to find of materials needed to create the tags
- objective method of determining soaks
- offers a easy way for Players to track how many others they've soaked and who
- all parts are biodegradable, but the main parts are reuseable with only the middle paper portion as the main consumable

As this is just an initial proposal, I'm hoping to have more ideas and have the system evolve such that it would become more appealing to more people while ironing out various potential gameplay problems.

Things I'm currently considering:
- as opposed to having things clipped to Players' shirts, the tags should be on a string/rope draped around one's neck such that the target area ends up more centered on a Player's torso. This also helps reduce potential Players' sweating issues
- as opposed to using toilet paper or Kleenex-type tissue paper, perhaps materials such as coloured party paper streamers or thin sheets of construction paper should be used

As things get more ironed out, I'll being posting pictures of sample devices and notes on various testing results.

[Spinner]

I read this thread with interest - it seems a clever twist on the loo paper idea, and one which I may well experiment with myself. Congratulations on thinking up the concept!



Edited By Spinner on 1131118522

[isoaker]

Congratulations on thinking up the concept!

Thanks, but I'll definitely have to acknowledge that it's more of an evolution of a design based on Dr_Olaf's description. Then again, most ideas tend to have evolved in part from other ideas being refined. This design could use refinement, but I currently like the direction.

Of course, if anyone here has en even better concept for a tagging system, please post up thoughts. While this one is my current fav, someone out there may know an even better, simpler, but more effective means to doing what we're trying to do (i.e. determine when a person is considered soaked in a water war game).