Completed: Flash Flood / Monster X Hybrid

[RabidRat]

Intro
Hi all!

I picked up a Flash Flood the other day at the Toys R Us with the intent to use it for a casual water fight this summer. I bored out the primary output nozzle with good results, and was somewhat satisfied. But then I had this urge to do more, so I googled up supersoakers, and came across this site. Reading through this forum allowed me to get a very good grasp of what I was dealing with. I also remembered that I had my old Monster X from back in the day sitting around, broken (I'd opened it up and messed around with the trigger mechanism, ultimately rendering it inoperable). So I decided I was going to transplant the pressure chamber from the Monster X into the Flash Flood.

I thought I'd share a walkthrough with pictures to give back to the community and do my part.


Walkthrough
So I started with a basically stock FF, with the primary nozzle bored out, and the screen removed from the flood nozzle.

Opening the thing up was a fairly straightforward process: all it involved was removing all the screws. Unfortunately, there was one thing that had me stuck, and that was taking the lock ring off where the pump handle meets the gun. I had to break it off with a giant pair of pliers. It was a real PITA.

Here's a picture of the internals.


Similarly, I took apart the Monster X, and removed the pressure chamber module.


Next, I removed the pressure chamber from the FF. A comparison is shown below; Monster X top, FF bottom. Note the irregular shape of the FF PC. It has a bulbous shape in the middle. Anyone care to take a guess at how the bulge affects performance?


Looking at the pictures of the Monster X's PC, you can see that some sort of accomodation must be made for its length. The solution was to take a hacksaw to the back of the casing and have at 'er. I chose to cut along a pre-existing 'seam', which worked well.

The donor PC from the Monster X is then installed into the FF.


Finally, the casing is bolted back together.


Here it is, completely empty.


Here it is, fully charged. A full charge requires 34 complete pumps.

The new pressure chamber capacity is 550mL, vs the original 350mL.


Comments
1)With the clear PC module, the charge level is now clearly visible.
2)Range and power has increased substantially, but it's nothing drastic. The FF's pressure chamber's tubing was larger in diameter, but the containment casing for the chamber was also larger in diameter, so it didn't seem like there would be a great improvement to power, if at all.
3)Balance of the gun has surprisingly not been compromised too terribly much. The gun's design lends itself well to PC extension mods, because of how everything is laid out. Kudos to the FF design team.
4)The new 'rifle stock' does a lot for both aesthetics and ergonomics. The 'stock' also helps you brace against the recoil of flood shots, which can now be sustained for a reasonable period of time.
5)I'd like to see if there's a viable way to extend the reservoir next. The 1.1L tank is woefully inadequate, and only allows two full charges to be drawn from it, resulting in a maximum of three full discharges.

[isoaker]

Very impressive mod! Good job!

In terms of extending the reservoir, assuming that's a Max-Infusion Flash Flood, the simplest thing would be to buy one of the Max-Infusion backpacks that would allow you to add another 3L or so. If you want more capacity than that, it's likely easier to use parts from the Max-Infusion Backpack to create your own higher-capacity reservoir instead of trying to physically extend the solid reservoir on the blaster, itself.

Think you could take some shot pics of this modded blaster in actions?

[marauder]

Wow, this has me VERY excited. It's always rewarding to see someone make a post like this, contributing new ideas back to the community. This is the proper way to make a first post my friends.
The new FF colors look really nice, and they look even better in your photographs than on the back of the boxes. I really love the FF's performance, but I have always found it too short for my liking and the primary nozzle is too small for my liking. What size did you bore it out to? What's the range and output like?
I think that I might do this with at least one of my two Arctic Blasts. The trigger/nozzle system on my FF broke. I have no problem with fixing leaky nozzles on guns made between 94 and 2002 but I have not had success with Max D nozzles. If I do this mod I could possibly use the firing chamber from my CPS 2000 or CPS 3200. A CPS 2000/Arctic Blast Hybrid would be insane. However, I plan on letting Ben take a look at these two guns when I go to MD in 2 weeks. I would rather have a working CPS 2000 and CPS 3200 than one and a better Arctic Blast.
The other option is to use my WWF Stone Cold, which I now believe to be beyond repairable. I lost my stats on the Stone Cold, but I am assuming that it's pressure chamber is similar in size to that of the Undertaker since it was close to the same size in the store. If I go this route then then the new Arctic Blast would have around 455 ml more firing capacity! The original Arctic Blast holds 285 ml, which is even less than the FF (good info for my Arctic Blast vs Flash Flood debate).

[Silence]

Wow, neat mod.

I remember seeing a similar PC extension about a year ago...but the actual bladder wasn't replaced. The old was was simply allowed to stretch further, which would wear it down pretty quickly. This is better.

Some of Larami's early patents, circa 1996, on water gun bladders addressed the use of a weakened (bulbous) section of the bladder, but not why. It's probably to make sure the bladder begins expanding close to the outlet, so the water doesn't have to go through a long, narrow, unexpanded section to get there. If that makes sense.

[RabidRat]

Thanks for the encouraging feedback!

I'll try to post up a video sometime this week, but it's pretty rainy here in Vancouver right now. =/

Range is definitly better than before, but I can't comment on exactly how much better until I do some structured experimenting, which I'll do as part of the video. As for power, you notice some kickback when firing the primary, where there was nothing before. Again though, no hard numbers yet. I should note that any experiments I do now on range and power will be on the combined effects of boring the primary / removing the screen on the flood barrel, and swapping in the Monster X PC.

The primary is bored out to a little over 1/8". This is unfortunately about as far as you can go before you'd rupture the tip (orange nozzle). This stage, as seen in the picture of the internals below, tapers from ~1/4" down to ~1/8".



I'm wondering if this tapered stage could (should) be taken right out and replaced with a straight-through stage, or even eliminated entirely. Any comments on the effect of reduction of barrel length on performance?

[HBWW]

Someone has reported that trimming the conical nozzle has bad effects on range/stream lamination, though it may have been not making the cut as perfect as it needs to be. Also, even if that wasn't an issue, I believe the diameter of the valve will be a problem if the nozzle gets too big. (the valve always has to be larger than the nozzle, unless someone can prove otherwise)

With that said, very nice mod. I have 2 4100's sitting around that I could also do the same thing with (if I fix my old FF's triggers too), but I'd rather the 4100's, though repairing the trigger will be a real pain made worse by the fact that my friends lost the original trigger piece. The trigger pieces on the 2004 4100's were intentionally designed to bend and break after a few uses.

Combatwise. Be wary of when the flash flood valve's spring weakens out, because that may eventually prevent the valve from closing until the whole pressure chamber is emptied.

Oh, and congrats on getting pump cap off. Perhaps it was just my particular model, but I had to cut it down halfway. (so that half of it comes off with the case aling with the other half on the other half of the case) After a water war, one of the halves broke off and I never found it, leaving the pump to be more difficult to keep straight.

[marauder]

With that said, very nice mod. I have 2 4100's sitting around that I could also do the same thing with (if I fix my old FF's triggers too), but I'd rather the 4100's, though repairing the trigger will be a real pain made worse by the fact that my friends lost the original trigger piece. The trigger pieces on the 2004 4100's were intentionally designed to bend and break after a few uses.

Fixing the 4100s has been much easier for me than fixing the FF's trigger. My FF is still broken whereas I have been able to fix my friend's 4100 and am about to fix my own. I hate to say it, but this whole Max D system has to go. I still remember one chat I had with one of the guys from Super Soaker about the Max D series before it came out. We didn't discuss physics, gun design, or materials however, just names. Even if I was able to test one of the guns I probably would not have thought about the spring wearing out and the system breaking down like it does.

[HBWW]

Most ball-valve based guns with regular triggers that I've seen have had problems, not just Max-D ones. Actually, some Max-D's seem to last fairly long. My Oozinator's been around for a few seasons and the trigger still feels as solid as it's always been. The worst I've had would be the FF, but leaks from the 5000 have come up recently. As for non-Max-D's, I've had trigger leaks from the 2007 Orca (and 2 of my friends' Orcas have had the same problem) and Piranha. Perhaps I should open them up, let the springs decompress, and rubber band them when reassembling them for the season, though I haven't done any gun testing in a while. (I did run an armory test a few months ago during the mid-winter, and thats how I found the problems I've had)

Now, lets say we have a perfected Max-D system without springs that wear out. I still prefer the pull valves for their more triggery feel and for the easy of pulling tap shots. Honestly, the CPS 2000 would not feel as badass if its trigger was Max-D. Even on BBT's system, the valves don't close as fast as with pull valves and have more resistance when opening. However, ball valves are great for small air pressurized reservoir guns, and I'd much prefer them over pull valves for lower-pressure situations. For high pressure, the pull valve wins because of increased flow since ball valves can't go too large unless they change it to a hand instead of finger trigger. The lower powered guns don't need as much diameter to their valves and tubing since you'll never use anything larger than 3x on those anyway.

[RabidRat]

Honestly, the CPS 2000 would not feel as badass if its trigger was Max-D

How come?

And is the rubber band method a permanent fix for the Max-D trigger failure? Should I just go ahead and do that now?

[HBWW]

The rubber bands tend to break much more easily than even the weakest Max-D spring (at least from my experience), and is not an effective long term solution. Effective long term solutions would be going to the hardware store and finding extension springs that are correctly sized and with proper torque, or to de-Max-D the valve.

If you've shot a CPS 2000 or any other high-powered CPS, you'd know why pull valves have a better feel for them. Just a simple tug and it blasts and recoils. No clicks, no awkward trigger movement, etc.

[RabidRat]

The rubber bands tend to break much more easily than even the weakest Max-D spring (at least from my experience), and is not an effective long term solution. Effective long term solutions would be going to the hardware store and finding extension springs that are correctly sized and with proper torque, or to de-Max-D the valve.

If you've shot a CPS 2000 or any other high-powered CPS, you'd know why pull valves have a better feel for them. Just a simple tug and it blasts and recoils. No clicks, no awkward trigger movement, etc.

Hmm.. interesting.

Any idea what kinda trigger mechanism my Monster X has?

[Silence]

C-A 99, I much prefer Max-D triggers...the fact that CPS blasters are fun to shoot is another issue, and stems from their actual power. Max-D triggers : old triggers :: IBM keyboards : old keyboards. Max-D triggers also happen to hook up to ball valves, which themselves are more reliable and produce more laminar streams. It's just a shame the trigger mechanism is so unreliable.

RabidRat, the Monster X uses a pull valve.

[RabidRat]

I could probably work out a way to retrofit the Monster X's trigger assembly into the FF, although it would be a bit of work.

What's the consensus on whether or not I should do this? =)

[HBWW]

Silence, as I've said earlier, the diameter of ball valves are restricted to conventional triggers. While 2-hand triggers remove this limitation, they aren't as nice as the regular finger trigger. The pull valve not only allows for high diameters (and therefore, high flow), they can also be fit to conventional triggers, while ball valves with large diameters have issues doing that. 2-handed triggers don't allow the users to pump and shoot simultaneously, and tap shots are more difficult. (especially with the FF's large trigger) Flow is at least as important as lamination, and the nozzle must always be smaller than the valve. (or for homemades, the LRT's barb size, whatever the factor is that restricts flow)

Until springs for ball valve based guns improve, I still prefer the pull valves for weapons that require high flow. The ball valve performs much better on weapons with lower flow. Now if we could get a better-designed trigger (much like the one used in Drenchenator's DR-3) that allows 1-handed opening of larger valves, that would be the ideal solution.

[Silence]

I've never seen a stock water gun with a bore over 3/8". Look at the pull valve on the page I linked to: the valve may be wide, but the hose doesn't surpass 1/2". A trigger for a 1/2" ball valve is no big deal; a 3/2" pull is what I'd expect to see, in a stock water gun.

Homemades are another issue entirely - 1/2" or greater bores, valves that are tight enough to seal against 200 PSI, valves that haven't been lubricated properly, etc. Those obviously require more torque and longer torque arms.

Not that I'm against pull valves. I just haven't seen any water guns where the valve, and not the nozzle, is the bottleneck.

[Teh Moron]

Sweet job. How much was the FF?

[RabidRat]

Sweet job. How much was the FF?

Thanks! I picked it up for $29.99 at Toys R Us. That's in CAD though if it matters.

[Teh Moron]

Ah, I'll pick one up then.

I don't have any donor PC's so i can't carry out the mod though

[Silence]

This is definitely a good candidate for latex rubber tubing if you live stateside and can pick tubing of the right size. Custom lengths, as much strength as you want, etc. You'll need to be a bit creative in mounting the bladder and finding a casing, of course.

[RabidRat]

I think the bladder mounting shouldn't be much of a problem actually, as long as the inner diameter of the tubing is roughly the same as the original so it'll slip over the barb. You'll then be able to clamp ontop it using the original mounting hardware. The end cap doesn't look to be difficult to transfer onto the new tubing either. As for casing, recall that the clear plastic variety isn't hard to source from McMaster-Carr, according to one of Ben's posts. The only thing that holds me back from trying this personally, is the potential cost. IF we have to order this stuff in bulk it could get expensive.

Perhaps a groupbuy might be in order one day, if there's sufficient interest. =)