CPS 2500 repair - Laminator

[soakinader]

So I picked up a CPS 2500 recently. It's clean, it's intact, but it's very worn. And boy does it have some problems.
First, to open the CPS 2500.
Screw count: 19 standard larami screws(11 body, 5 nozzle cover, 3 pump) , 8 short larami screws (PC area). One screw for nozzle selector.
Now this part is glued, but it's no problem:

Ok, this is how to deal with the glued strap attachment points on any CPS gun. Take your razor blade, work your way in there until it pops through. Easy as pie, and non-damaging.

The PC has developed a massive crack:

I mean, seriously. Half of this piece is broken clean, I almost pulled it apart by accident.

The trigger is barely in one piece:

I didn't even know that was broken...

And the laminator is pretty much shredded:

At some point the first screen buckled and sliced it's way through the laminator. At some point after that, I imagine the PC developed it's little leak.

The PC breach and the trigger have been glued and are now drying... but I don't know what to do about the laminator. Out of 8 straws, *Edit: 9 straws, found one straw INSIDE of another straw... it's strawception or something...* As I was saying, out of 9 straws, three of them are sliced in half, three more have cracks and gouges in them, two are cracked and one is intact. So basically, six of them are shot. That being said, they really are like drinking straws. I'm not sure how it will hold up, but maybe I could try cutting some normal straws? I'm worried they may be too weak. For that matter, I'm not sure how the screen is supposed to stay in place and not just crash through the straws again. I know someone on here has had this problem before... so yeah.

[marauder]

Dude. You are the king of finding guns. This is a great learning experience. I've always found that I get to know my guns better, including how to repair, mod, and keep them in good condition when I get to start basically from scratch like this.

I can help you some with the laminator repair. I opened up the laminator on my XP Pool Pumper Blaster about a year ago and it was in bad shape. I tested out several types of new straws. The ones I have in now are neon colored thin walled drinking straws from a grocery store. I had also messed around with coffee stirrers. I thought the normal straws were just a little bit better, the stream was slightly more powerful. If you use some loctite superglue your screen should stay put. It's difficult getting the glue only where the screen attaches - and not dripping down the inside of the nozzle.

That's bad news. My 2nd Pool Pumper has a few misaligned straws but isn't nearly as bad. I'm not sure it's worth risking opening up the laminator in order to replace those 2 straws - especially since I'm making a multi nozzle adaptor using a 1/2" threaded brass pipe which I can make a new laminator with.

I love the pictures. Would like to see more once you get around to fixing these.

[soakinader]

OK, so I thought I had this thing fixed. I was going to test it sans laminator just to see how it performs. The good news? The pump is in great shape and it pumps air. The bad news? Look again, I don't know if this is new or if I just plain missed it:

Yeah, it's ANOTHER massive crack, running past the base of the nozzle laminator. Yeash. I glued it there, sprung another air leak, glued that, and now I'm waiting for the next test. This is my second massive PC failure in the last 24 hours.
As for the laminator, it is so easy to remove from the 2500 that I think I will do a little experimenting myself. When I am done, I think I will be smearing some JB weld around the edges of the inner screen. Out of curiosity, what diameter are your straws? I have found roughly 3 different sizes, plus coffee straws.
Thanks marauder, it's great to have an 8mp camera on your phone, plus the Minus app. What pictures do you want to see more of?

[darthmeow]

OK, so I thought I had this thing fixed. I was going to test it sans laminator just to see how it performs. The good news? The pump is in great shape and it pumps air. The bad news? Look again, I don't know if this is new or if I just plain missed it:

Yeah, it's ANOTHER massive crack, running past the base of the nozzle laminator. Yeash. I glued it there, sprung another air leak, glued that, and now I'm waiting for the next test. This is my second massive PC failure in the last 24 hours.
As for the laminator, it is so easy to remove from the 2500 that I think I will do a little experimenting myself. When I am done, I think I will be smearing some JB weld around the edges of the inner screen. Out of curiosity, what diameter are your straws? I have found roughly 3 different sizes, plus coffee straws.
Thanks marauder, it's great to have an 8mp camera on your phone, plus the Minus app. What pictures do you want to see more of?

Wait, PC failure? Is the PC what was leaking or the trigger valve?

[soakinader]

The PC was most definitely leaking. I should have snapped a picture while it was hanging open. If you look in both of the pictures you can see a big crack (well, two) running around the front side of the PC (The big orange thing is the laminator!). Thankfully there is nothing wrong with the back side or the trigger valve. I managed to get a little bit of air in to pressurize it, and I will give it a shot with water in the morning.

[Andrew]

The cracks in the pic are on the front of the pull valve (referring to the whole plastic assembly as the valve) not the PC. For simplicity, and to differentiate it from the rest of the blaster, we tend to define the pressure chamber as the part of the blaster responsible for building pressure (the rubber bladder in a CPS blaster) rather than just holding pressure.

[soakinader]

Huh. On one hand, I can see your point. On the other, I don't see the difference between holding and building pressure. Regardless of where, if you poke a hole you are going to get the same amount of pressure leaking out. The whole plastic assembly, including where water runs from the pump to the rubber chamber, is pressurized. Even if you are looking at an air pressure system, you can't just disregard the piping from the check valve leading up to the actual valve opening.
In this situation I can say that I have a pressure leak around the edge of the PC and by the laminator as opposed to around the firing valve on the opposite half. As opposed to, the PC tore and now I need to buy LRT. In my head I tend to always think of the parts as the hard [plastic] PC, soft [rubber] PC, pull [firing] valve. This is how I do it, if you are confused we'll figure it out eventually.
The fact is, on most CPS guns, that the pressure chamber is integrated with the firing valve, and while it might make terminology a bit more complicated, it's still necessary to be accurate rather than simplistic. That's also why I have pictures.

Anyways, after doing a lot of gluing and regluing, (6 times the charm) I think I have finally fixed the hard PC leak. The trigger is fixed, the laminator now has new straws jammed into it, and in the morning, I hope to have some fun testing it. Still not sure if I want to try gluing the inner mesh screen back over the straws. I'll post some pictures of the trigger and laminator later.

[Andrew]

I see your point, and technically any and all components which hold pressure could be considered as pressure vessels (including all of the piping past the second check valve). The term "Pressure Chamber" is defined differently from "Pressure Vessel" (as far as I know only by the water warfare community) in that the PC is the pressure vessel in which pressure is generated (either the air in the PC compresses, or the PC itself expands). Other components which are not responsible for the generation of pressure (either they do not contain compressed air or don't expand significantly enough to generate meaningful pressure) aren't given the label Pressure Chamber. The PC is the component in which the potential energy is stored (in compressed air or elastic expansion). If you remove the PC, cap it off and pump the blaster it will not generate meaningful pressure. If you remove the pull valve, and connect the PC directly to the second check valve of the pump, it will still generate meaningful pressure (but obviously you can't use it without the pull valve).

Great to hear you've fixed it! Shouldn't be necessary to glue the mesh, but I can't say for sure.

[DX]

The thing is, it doesn't matter what is technically correct, it matters what people understand. "PC" and "firing valve' have been separate things for over a decade. They are usually configured away from each other and connected by tubing (vs one piece like in most Nerf air guns). When they break, there are different problems (like the seal becoming misaligned in the firing valve vs the bladder rupturing in the pressure chamber). While it is all a pressure chamber, everyone would be confused if the terms changed. Everyone knows what the PC is and what the firing valve is, and how to describe repair issues with them.

This is why it took so long to go from "check valve freeze" to "disabling the pressure relief valve". They aren't even check valves, and aren't actually frozen, but the term stuck for a long time and everyone knew instantly what someone was talking about when they said CVF. Likewise, "lamination" isn't physically what goes on with smoothing out stream formation, but the term stuck, everyone knows what one is talking about when they use it, and is unlikely to change. Term consistency is so important that two communities will call the same thing different names and people will be confused if they don't use the right one. Think PRV vs OPRV. Technically the same thing, but using the wrong one in the wrong context confuses people. Or, they might call totally different things the same name. Think what "priming" a blaster means in Nerf vs in water wars. Cocking a springer vs shooting the air out of a CPS in the refilling process. This is why it's so important to use the terms that a community has designated for its own parts, and not your own terms or another community's. I used to use my own terms all the time and nobody knew what I was talking about.

Also note that the parts that aren't in the classical "PC" don't really contribute to it, they are dead space. The tubing between the 2nd check valve running into the firing valve itself remains full of water after running out of pressure. Even in an APH, you have to shake the thing with the valve open to get the un-shootable water out. Blasters in just about every other hobby do not have dead space considerations in a pressure chamber, because it's all air. Water gun PCs may have both air and water (AP PCs) or pure water (CPS PCs).

[marauder]

As a student of anthropology I am positively salivating over this conversation. This is how languages branch out and form new languages over time. *evil laughter*

[soakinader]

Mkay. Well, as long as everybody can figure it out eventually. I still don't understand the marks/version debate.
Anywho, is the inner mesh supposed to sit ON the straws, or on the 'ledge' above?

The 'ledge' is the orange ring, it's about half an inch above the straws, at which point it narrows, then widens again in the straws area.

So, after sealing up the 2500 about seven or eight times, I finally had the gun working properly. No leaks from the repair to be seen. Then I had the bright idea to put in one more pump to test the OPRV.

BOOOOSHH!!!
If you've never had a fully loaded CPS 2500 explode in your hands, well, let me tell you, you're going to need some dry pants.

As you can see, I have been testing it without the cover piece so that I can feel and see the leaks. This is also possibly why it exploded the way that it did. Oops.
So now I am back to square two. But hey, now I know. I'm going to start with some super glue right in the crack, and then seal the whole darned thing up on the inside with JB weld epoxy. I'll make a video of it WORKING when it's finally done. As for the mesh screen... I'll probably just ram it in there, let it sit on the straws. Hope it works!
*EDIT* Just finished epoxying the PC, erm pull valve, erm.... crack. Actually, I went a little overboard with the JB weld but now I know for DARN SURE that it won't leak.

Oh and if you look you can see the mesh screen I rammed in. XD

[Andrew]

I'd whack some epoxy putty in there over the normal epoxy, for a bit more strength around the crack. Should help to reduce the stress in that area at the edge of the valve. You could just go around the whole inside edge of the valve to make sure. A bit of fresh epoxy between the two will help to hold it all together. Ideally the mesh should be on the ledge, but should work fine against the straws.

[marauder]

Wow, I have never seen anything remotely like that happen to a firing valve before. That is insane. Looks like you cut it open with a saw. I have some good news though, just in case you can't fix this on your own. One of DX's friends is going to start manufacturing new 2500 firing valves in his machine shop.

Did you use the stock mesh or did you use some from your own stockpile?

[soakinader]

Andrew, I have been looking around for a nice big chunk of epoxy putty, but all I can find are little 60g packages for about 6-10$. Anyone know if Home Depot/Home hardware/Lowes/Walmart somewhere sells a big container of it? I've looked everywhere. Pretty much.
Actually, Marauder, the exact same thing happened to my CPS 3000. Catastrophic pressure failure. That one I managed to repair from the outside with JB weld.
Erm, I used the stock mesh, what makes you think I have a stockpile of anything? lol

[marauder]

I asked because I'm trying to figure out where I can get some mesh to make a dual laminator/multi nozzle mod for one of my XP Pool Pumper Blasters. I can only find it in really huge sections, like rolls 4 feet tall by 50 feet long, which of course are $30-$50. I need to find where I can get smaller sections.

[Andrew]

You probably won't get through a hole stick of the stuff. IIRC I used just around a half of a stick to do the inside of both (and around the outside of one) halves of the valve on my 1500 (still got a bit left of that stick somewhere ). You just need to make a thick-ish worm of epoxy putty and force it into the corner around the inside of the valve to make a nice smooth curve.

Over here I can get really cheap stuff for about £1, and decent stuff for just over £5, so $6-$10 isn't too bad if it's the good stuff. Someone will probably know a good source for decent e-putty at a fair price.

[soakinader]

You can find the mesh you need at a plumbing store. Just ask for a mesh aerator. The kind you find in a sink faucet! Bonus: It's round, and it comes in various sizes.
Believe me, if you are using *epoxy putty* for bodywork instead of just a minor repair, you can go through the stuff pretty quick. It's used extensively for aesthetic mods and integrations (IE nerf).
As for the 2500, I have just finished applying a second layer of epoxy (JB Kwik) to the inside, just like before. I have already tested it and it only has a minor leak, but I figure the more the better.

When I get the LRT I need for my Hydrocannon, I will probably be using a big hunk of putty for the pump guide.
PS: I am looking for clear plastic cylinders, to be used as a PC casing. I have been looking at water bottles for a section that is 13" long by no more than 3" wide, the best I have found so far is 6" long.

[soakinader]

It's done! For now.
[Video]
Whoops I just realized that the video I took is REALLY bad. You can believe me, it works.

So the laminator, trigger, and the pressure breach has been fixed. This thing had more cracks than the wall of china, but I manage to plug them all. It works great, in particular the 20X setting has a nice spread to it, probably due in part to my laminator. The 9th straw had to be squished a little to fit, and I placed the two center straws horizontally in the hopes something like this would happen. It gets exceptional range on the 20X and it spreads 2-4 feet before impact. It's like a shotgun setting. The 10X gets great range and smooth streams, and the 5X as well.

I only have two problems with this gun. One is, the check valve in the pump squeaks horribly after the gun is about 1/4 full. It's not the pump. Two, and the most important, is that it has a sticky firing valve gasket and it seldom seals properly, meaning that it normally leaks pressure, and fairly quickly at that. It's annoying but I do know how to fix it, it just takes an angle grinder and a drill press, two things I don't have access to at the moment.

[TheSoaker]

I told ALL of you that a valve casing can explode and you didn't believe me. How about now?

[soakinader]

Lol. I guess that my CPS 3000 explosion never found it's way onto the forum, and that was two or three years ago. Also, CPS 1000 valve failure (backside). Although, neither of these was even close to as bad as this CPS 2500!